Oh, I do like the word 'trothics'. Permission to borrow?
Of course you can!!
That word actually originated amongst my group of friends in approx 1991 - sitting about town and commenting on the younger lot lol!!
Hmm..."goth proper" doesn't exist anymore, eh? Say that too loudly at Tenebrae and you might not make it home!
But seriously, that's is a rather elitist attitude to take. So basically you're only a real goth (TM) if you're older, wear second-hand clothes, and complain about how the "scene isn't what it used to be"?
Bah, in my opinion goth is something far more personal than clothing, age, or bragging rights.
I don't believe it does exist proper. Not in the UK -except for pockets in London or the big cities perhaps. It has 'evolved', yes, but you can't recapture the early days...post-punk backlash, political environment and all that! It's a british thing.
It may well seem an elitist attitude, yes, but you have to understand the goth culture I have grown up in - small town, close-minded and all. We used to get stoned and spat at for how we looked - these days no-one even comments - far too many teenagers wandering around with pasty faces lol!!
Think Big Black's 'Kerosene' track and you get the picture. It may have been different for those in bigger, more advanced cities, but not in this hole in the Westcountry;)
Of course goth is a personal thing - but I am referring a lot to media-labelling here and those sheep who embrace it without thinking of the past history or their own personal creative sides.
Oh, and btw, I may not have explained myself very well anyway. I certainly haven't expounded my views in full here. I was just pretty much recanting the chat that Jui-ehh!! and I had last night lol!!
By "recapturing the early days", do you mean everything should stay the way it was in 1981? I mean, were you even there when it all started? (I certainly wasn't.) You seem a bit young yourself to have made it to Bauhaus's original gigs...
For the vast majority of my life I haven't resided in a big city. The town I come from in upstate New York has very little by way of a scene, quite possibly less than you have in your town, in fact. Where I'm from, if you're all done-up for going clubbing you're risking a confrontation if you stop to gas up your car. Still, your argument basically seems to be that it isn't fair that kids today have an easier time of it than you did. Tough. Life's like that.
If anything, you should be proud that you helped pave the way for those kids to be more accepted. And sure, the young ones might be a bit goofy now, but they'll either drift off and become ravers or stick around and learn something. It's a shame that older goths look down on the next generation instead of introducing them to things they may not have discovered yet.
As for it being a British thing...please. What the British scene needs is far fewer bands trying desperately to capture the Fields of the Nephilim/Sisters vibe and more people willing to push the boundaries of the musical genre.
I don't mean that at all - what I meant was that the era itself can never be 'recaptured'; things evolve lol, and I have to move with that!
Of course, there are plenty of new bands out there, and I enjoy listening to their music and discovering innovative new stuff - but I'm naturally nostalgic for the stuff I grew up on - and got myself into a 10 year hole listening to Nick Cave exclusively (amongst indie bands and things), so it takes a while to catch up...
I wasn't ranting to be negative about the newbie kids - besides, without the current market how would I be able to purchase sexeh pointy boots and indulge my love of stripy socks lol...
And I don't entirely look down on them - I was one once remember - it's just the ones that listen to Evanescence and crap that get me a bit pissed off sometimes - especially the ones who complain about not hearing 'proper' goth in my local club when we've just had an hour of the oldies, and then ask for Evanescence when quizzed what proper goth is.
They just need a bit of education lol. They'll learn! And that's what the vampgirl.com forum is for - healthy discussion and pointing in the right direction lol!
What I think you missed here, is that I was mostly having a nostalgia trip for the early days, and that it was a conversation with Jui-ehh!! who I just love to prod with heated debate... I love to play devils advocate in our conversations as she rises to it so easily hehe;)
yeah you're being snooty. but you iz da O.G. (original goth)
certainly you're allowed to look down your leichner-caked nose at all the snotty angsty 14yearolds in their mesh tops and slipknot shirts...
Go me! I'm trying to provoke some healthy debate lol!!
O.G? Gawd, just how many years have I known you lol - and you still remember the 'biker' days too before that lolol!!!
Slipknot shirts - ewww!!! But I actually have one of those mesh tops - got it to replace my old crochet long one...don't wear it much mind as it itches under corsetry;)
*grin* You bladdy snobby elitist cahhhh!! The days of stone throwing have certainly not passed.... and I'm a sodding Londoner...
Personally I see no reason to split the community. There's room for everyone :)
I was actually just playing devils advocate - you have to note that this was a conversation with Jui-ehh!! who I take pleasure in *poking* with heated debate hehe;)
Wasn't intending to split the communitah as twere - just wanted to see what reaction I got to some of my opinions hehe - as it is, without noob goffs I wouldn't be able to get sexeh boots or stripy socks lol!!
I, personally, thing that goth evolves with time. The basis in romanticist literature is still there. But the fashion, and the very nature of the people have changed with the times ;p.
You should have let your makup run :p. Running makup is sexay. Either that, or I am just weird. Most likely the latter.
Trust me to get stuck in a rut!
The latter? Bit of both I say;)
Here's to talc on the face and mixing your precious Barry M black eyeshadow with Rimmel's "Black Cherry" lipstick to make it look black! Youngsters today don't know they've been born!
I don't mind the young'uns - as long as they're cute!
Oh god yes, the white clown stuff in a tube from Jack Cohen's or Rimmel 'Pale Biscuit', then white talc and tons of that Black Cherry lippy which I remember fondly!!
Some of those youngsters need lessons in eyeliner down here hehe;)
I had to relace a girl into a corset at the last black cats who was wearing it upside down lol!!
(perhaps we should introduce a 'hit squad' to fix em up?)
Oh, next black catz is this saturday - you going?
"(perhaps we should introduce a 'hit squad' to fix em up?)"
OMG lol!! I totally forgot about that dodgily done corsetting!!
You're not being snooty about the 'trothics' :-) actually I find it highly amusing in an irritating sort of way, the little spooky kids wandering around in heavy black cloaks with thick, bad make up, applied on like they used a shovel, eyeliner so thick it looks like someone punched them hard in both eyes (LOL!) TBH they are just like the flower children of the 60's, middle class kids rebeling against their parents values with whatever is tbe most trendiest rebel persona around - this time its not Woodstock, LSD and flower power, its Marilyn Manson and slip knot. They'll be back to their Rap and House music before long and not a over used black eye crayon in sight ;-)
debs (another elistist old bastard)
*is feeling the solidarity*
*big hugs back*