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Miss Von Trapp

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GOTH IS DEAD. LONG LIVE GOTH!! [Oct. 19th, 2004|08:02 pm]
Miss Von Trapp
[Mood |curiouscurious]
[Music |Leonard Cohen: The Future]

The way I see it, I'm pretty much elitist over the 'good old days' - 1980's through to mid 1990's goth stuff - inc. Sisters, The Cure, Depeche Mode, Bauhaus, Joy Division and all that...

I'm more than knowledgeable about all that era, since that was a HUGE part of my teenage years, and so I've listened pretty much exclusively to that stuff right up until now... I've recently been picking out and foraging through newer stuff in a quest to expand my knowledge of 'goth musical history' since then and I'm curious as to what all my friends takes are on this...

Controversial? Your views are much appreciated!!

I've been stuck in a rut since 1994 - apart from keeping up with my old favourites (Nick Cave in particular) - and have pretty much only listened to that old stuff. In my own personal opinion, from the mid-90's onward, the 'elite goth' scene has sort of died and the whole goth machine has branched out - diversified and evolved into many different facets - taking inspiration from the earlier bands that have, and always will be, my elitist favourites. Goth has undergone a (r)evolution since back then - since the 'scene' sort of 'broke up' (at least, for me and in my opinion so don't take my views as gospel) goths have taken other bands under their wing if they purport to have ANY darkness about them...

Suede (the london suede) are a good example of this - they are an indie band - always were - but were jumped upon and swallowed up by the desperate goth community as goth largely due to the darkness of their lyrics and the fact that they all wear black. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Suede - so much so that I've seen them live twice - but they are not goth and never will be.

There have been bands in the mid 90's - Rosetta Stone and London After Midnight in particular who have been popular, but Rosetta Stone were pretty much a 'sisters cover/clone band' (listen to 'An Eye For The Main Chance' and compare it to Floodland etc) and London After Midnight - although I do like them - had a thing of their own that has evolved from Sisters influence...

I know stalwarts like The Cure and Siouxsie are still going along - very well too... Even The Sisters are still gigging - but myself and my friends are of the opinion that they haven't changed their set list since we saw 'them' (Eldritch, random musicians and Doktor Avalanche - the drum machine) back in 1993...

So, the way I see it, since then there have been all sorts of facets that have sprung up from the ashes of the old - cybergoth, the US Deathrock thing (taking its influence from Specimen and all that - even from Screaming Lord Sutch - 1950s musical genius that he was - RIP) and others - all these have developed into their own particular style - all under the same 'goth' banner but separate entities (with their own elitism) in their own right. To put it more succintly, goth does not exist as one easy category anymore.

I've not kept up much with all of this. I'll be the first one to admit I don't have much of a clue about the evolution of 'goth' post 1995 in the USA (due largely to my Nick Cave obsession) and I'm asking now for your ideas, views and reviews on whats going on musically in the US scene. I do listen to KMFDM, DieForm, PIG, Skinny Puppy - general industrial stuff and whatnot - and a fair amount of german stuff (which I think is seriously the way forward) - Lacrimosa, Rammstein, Diary of Dreams, Janus and more... but I have no clue about your actual categorisation in the USA itself and what you, personally, would term 'goth' these days...

What I'm asking for is this: Please would you give me some ideas about what you think goth is now - what you like and what you listen to. I could bang on at distressing length with tidbits, pop trivia and such like from my own personal histoire in the UK - and what's currently going on in the present UK music scene as well (btw, gashinryu - Matt gave me a promo copy of Corrosion's 'Nyaga' - I think it's great... LOVED Sinister Dexter and think it's one of the best tracks on the album - sorry I never got to email that font for the cover but it was on a non-netted comp and couldn't get access:/) - but I'm looking to expand my 'dark horizons' with some more modern schtuf from 'over the pond' as 'twere.

I may be a goth-elitist over the old stuff - as I'll always have a nostalgia for my teenage years - but I can't get stuck in the same era all the sodding time - that would be like your parents listening to the Beatles forever and not appreciating/acknowledging anything new musically since the sixties lol!!

Ok, I'll shut up now - answers on a postcard to 'above the chemist' please;)
LinkReply

Comments:
[User Picture]From: inverse_mod
2004-10-19 12:48 pm (UTC)

Nonsensical Babble

Seeing as I'm an American boy, I'll go out on a limb to say, as far as I've seen, the US scenes don't really care to be viewed by geographical constraints...and by that I mean I don't think most people over here care where the band originates. I'm out of touch with modern youth and to that I say "fuck it" because I don't really care for what passes as goth these days either. For every 1 person in the States that likes the originators like UK Decay, Ritual, Southern Death Cult, etc. you'll find at least 15 claiming it all started with Nine Inch Nails. Basically, the majority of goth clubs over here cater to pop industrial and shock rock acts like The Genitorturers, KMFDM, :Wumpscut:, etc. A lot of people over here would prefer to erroneously label what was originally called goth "deathrock" or "deathpunk" for the simple reasoning that they don't want to be associated with the crowds that like EBM, futurepop, synth pop, or completely aggressive music. Most people in the US don't have a clue and if you offer the truth, they don't want to hear it. I'm not really part of any scene as I'm pretty removed from anyone who can listen to Danse Society or Virgin Prunes. Even if I did find those people, I'd disappoint elitists by liking bands like The Who, Sneaker Pimps, Suede, or Mansun so it doesn't even pay to align yourself with others based on genres over here. My babble is basically trying to communicate that I, despite being from the States, gave US bands like Velvet Acid Christ a listen and found myself severely disappointed. Of the bands KMFDM, Die Form, Pig, Skinny Puppy, Lacrimosa, Rammstein, Diary of Dreams and Janus, I like a good majority of Skinny Puppy's catalogue and grudgingly like some Die Form. Dated or not, for me the real musical pinnacle for anything termed "goth" resides in older bands like UK Decay, Theatre of Hate, Virgin Prunes, Danse Society, Christian Death, Specimen, some mid-90s groups like Corpus Delicti, as well as current groups like Quidam, Cinema Strange, Bloody Dead and Sexy, Sleeping Children, and The Brides.
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[User Picture]From: missvontrapp
2004-10-19 12:52 pm (UTC)

Re: Nonsensical Babble

Thanks for that!!

I'm all up for opinions y'see... Eternal Devil's Advocate that I am!!

*grin*

I am old and have been languishing in a CAVE (almost quite literally) and I want a fresh take on all of this hehe;)

(I'm sticking with the old shit, don't you worry...)
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[User Picture]From: vashe
2004-10-19 12:48 pm (UTC)
Okay, I shall throw in my input - but I'm not up for debating what is/isn't goth because frankly I don't know and it would make me look stupid! Anyway I'd say Orgy have certainly been influenced by the Brit goth scene (their cover of 'Blue Monday' could be used as evidence)... You know, zombieinribbons (on Live Journal and your forum) will have some interesting input on this, I'm going to point her in the direction of this entry :) xx
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[User Picture]From: missvontrapp
2004-10-19 12:54 pm (UTC)
Cheers Vashe - see, this is what it's all about...

Promoting/provoking healthy debate on what has become a very disparate and peculiarly currently elitist (for whats left of it) scene.

I got my old 80's education, I need to be brought up to speed on whats 'new' (if anything)!!

(this post has been crossposted to the_goth_elite btw)
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[User Picture]From: vashe
2004-10-19 12:58 pm (UTC)
It's funny really - for the last two years I've been doing the total opposite - expanding my collection/knowledge as far as the 80's stuff goes.

I mean, Lacuna Coil certainly fall under the modern gothic category (I'm sure you know of them though... Italian band?). There's also a 'new' (started lasted year) label known as 'Nu-Goth' (which I dispise) which covers bands like Evanescence, HIM, Nightwish, The Rasmus... basically lumping all the 'parent-friendly' goth stuff under one label. There's also bands like Cradle of Filth, who are 'gothic' although I can't stand them so can't expand much there...
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[User Picture]From: missvontrapp
2004-10-19 01:06 pm (UTC)
Lacuna Coil - Heard them. They're ok.

And gawd - don't get me started on why I hate Evanescence - been through all that on the forum already lol;)

Cradle of Filth?? Hate their music with a vengeance - though I wouldn't turn down Dani Filth in a dark alleyway... Oh no!!
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From: typhonian
2004-10-19 01:28 pm (UTC)
Hmmm...the new goth I think ranges from stuff like Cruxshadows (saw them live recently in Dorchester of all places) through to Rammstein...
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[User Picture]From: missvontrapp
2004-10-19 11:54 pm (UTC)
I love Rammstein - and their videos (Lichtspeilhaus) are EFFING FANTASTIC!!!

(not a huge fan of the Cruxshadows though)
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[User Picture]From: missvontrapp
2004-10-23 09:41 am (UTC)
"There's also a 'new' (started lasted year) label known as 'Nu-Goth' "

LOL! Reminds me of the ROMO new romantic revival in the mid 90's. That was short-lived lolol!!

http://www.lexiconmagazine.com/NWC/new_new.html

I wonder what happened to Orlando?

*ponders*
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[User Picture]From: bexylu
2004-10-19 02:29 pm (UTC)
I too find myself loitering in the past..... Not one new band leaves me with that feeling that I'm at home with their music, and i find it really difficult to be passionate about it. Nick Cave is, to me, the only Artist who still creates music that I recognise internally as being what I feel being goth is all about, but then I still crimp and backcomb.....
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[User Picture]From: missvontrapp
2004-10-19 10:48 pm (UTC)
Nick Cave is GOD.

And my crimpers have melted...

*grin*
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From: scar_let
2004-10-19 02:45 pm (UTC)
Actually, US deathrock arose concurrently with the UK goth scene...bands like Christian Death, 45 Grave, and the Super Heroines certainly not imitative of Specimen.

As for US band recommendations, here goes:

Unto Ashes, The Mirror Reveals, Black Tape for a Blue Girl, Lycia, Collide, Voltaire, The Brides, Mira, Sunshine Blind, This Ascension, Audra, Diva Destruction, Bella Morte, the Cruxshadows, Mors Syphilitica, The Shroud, Amber Asylum, Faith and the Muse, etc.
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[User Picture]From: missvontrapp
2004-10-19 10:50 pm (UTC)
I like 45 Grave. They're songs make me giggle too, so thats a big plus.

Oh, and the recommendations: I love Black Tape for a Blue Girl and Voltaire, but can't say much for the others as I've only really heard Cruxshadows and FatM really, and no, not my cup of tea AT ALL.
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[User Picture]From: missvontrapp
2004-10-20 10:20 am (UTC)
I remember Christian Death from back then, now you mention it. I thought they were utter shite lol!

*ducks and runs*
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[User Picture]From: missvontrapp
2004-10-19 10:52 pm (UTC)
Rosy Stone were ok. Only because I was starved of the Sisters lol - and 'Under The Gun' was ATROCIOUS in my opinion...

I remember psychobilly - one of my mates who I still see around was one and I wasn't a huge fan of that scene at all.

I was disappointed at the announcement by the Dream Disciples at Whitby last Apr. Really a shame that!

*miserable*

But, HEY!! At least you get to see ASF NEXT WEEK YOU LUCKY SWINE!!

(I couldn't have managed it anyway as I wouldn't have gotten back to work in time)
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[User Picture]From: missvontrapp
2004-10-20 10:21 am (UTC)
I walk the line...

CAMEL CAMEL CAMEL CAMEL!!!

*giggles*

Nowt wrong with 'greatest hits'... But you'd probably have a more comfortable time sitting at home with a bottle, a comfy chair and the cd lol!
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From: shardofmany
2004-10-19 10:33 pm (UTC)
"The Dream Disciples had the potention to really do things, but it fizzled out too late"
They are still touring!!!
And All About Eve had a new single out in may this year.
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[User Picture]From: missvontrapp
2004-10-19 10:53 pm (UTC)
Dream Disciples are no longer recording. They announced it in Whitby in April and my ex from Birmingham (vlad) told me so himself as re-iteration in July... They're his mates.

:/
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From: shardofmany
2004-10-19 10:57 pm (UTC)
Well until I see it on an official site I ain't believing... Hearsay and gossip I have heard far too much of that recently.
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From: shardofmany
2004-10-20 12:21 am (UTC)
"Its not gossip my friend, its Fact, sorry to dissapoint"
I am not saying your lying, I am just wary of people telling me bullshit.
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From: filthyrikky
2004-10-20 03:56 am (UTC)
I'm tempted to say "who cares". Something that happened, happened. I don't any longer hark back to it with dewy eyes becayse I believe in looking forward and upwards. The best is yet to come from goth. Im about one week to be precise (runs away).
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[User Picture]From: missvontrapp
2004-10-20 08:31 am (UTC)
I just hit thirty Rikky, I'm having a crisis;)

I know!! And I'm seriously looking forward to getting 'Consummate' - can't pre-order because I don't get paid till the end of the month and I spent 130 quid on dvds and cds this month already so I'm broke!

*grin*

Once I've gone and got my copy I shall be doing as much promotion as I can down in my neck of the woods as well... How does it work for if I want our dj to play tracks off it in the club btw? (don't know how broadcast/whatever stuff works)
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[User Picture]From: ali_star
2004-10-20 07:52 am (UTC)
Hmm, not really hip wiv the Goff kids these days, but I hear whisperings of bands you might like to check out; try 'Ghosts Of Lamora', 'Crimson Sky', 'Rome Burns', 'Razor Blade Kisses' and Cauda Pavonis'

N.B am in no way endorsing these bands as, to be honest, I've not really heard any of 'em.. They're just names that seem to pop up alot in goff circles (circles? pentagrams surely?) Now ask me to recommend you some top elektro stuff and yer sorted!

*wink*
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[User Picture]From: missvontrapp
2004-10-20 08:35 am (UTC)
I'll give the first four a go, but OMG NO!!!!

I heard Caudus Pavonis on that vampire type compilation that had Incubus Succubus, Killing Miranda and stuff on it. Fucking AWFUL!!!!

*grin*

Electro stuff?? Gwan Gwan Gwan Gwan GWAN!!!

I was having hysterical giggles at Kraftwerk: Tour De France last night (was listening to it at work) - "omg this songs all about 'I have a great physique, I am aero dee nam eek, I am a loon ateek...' omg this NEXT one is about TITANIUM FRAMES... omg this NEXT ONE (elektro kardiogramm) is about what happens if you cycle too hard" - cue lots of comedy voices to 'sing along' and pretending to cycle to the loo when I left my seat and so on...

*giggles*
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From: typhonian
2004-10-20 10:01 am (UTC)
Okay...are you a rocky or a bleepy goth? Let's get this out of the way first :-)
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[User Picture]From: missvontrapp
2004-10-20 10:03 am (UTC)
Both. Depends on what mood I'm in.

I like any 'bleepy' that sounds like computer coder/demo/hacker music from the old amiga days for a start - then I progress to heavier industrial/experimental noise and ting - but I also have my roots in glamrock goth and also 'angry shit' too.

Eclectic, moi? Fraid so!!
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